Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  25

  Watchtower Used to Teach Jesus Was Not an Angel and was  "the Lord from Heaven" Who Died on a Cross!

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  no wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from kingdon hall libraries.

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  Sea Breeze

  @Slimboyfat

  Thank you for even acknowledging that early 1st and 2nd century church Leaders quoted 1 Timothy 3: 16 as "God" and not "He".

  It creates an unmimaginable situation where if the verse was supposedly written as "He" all along until the 4th century until someone changed it, that you you would have so many church leaders quote that verse as "God" centuries earlier. If fact, it just provides more evidence of the unrelialability of the Alexdrian texts which account for less than 10% of all manuscripts. The same could be said for most of the "disputed" verses Unitarians try to use against Christians.

  it could be compatible with JW theology because Jesus was the one who revealed the invisible God because he is the exact representation of his Father.

  But that's not what it says is it? It could mean just what is says: God was manifest in the flesh.

  Would you mind answering my questions as to whether or not you would allow the Spirit of Christ to inhabit you? If Christ is anything other than God, like an angel for instance wouldn't that be about the same as demon posession?

  "If any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his". - Romans 8: 9
  
  Don't you want to belong to Christ?
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  25

  Watchtower Used to Teach Jesus Was Not an Angel and was  "the Lord from Heaven" Who Died on a Cross!

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  no wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from kingdon hall libraries.

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  Sea Breeze

  @TouchofGrey

  I think the amount of NT manuscripts is unprecedented in the ancient world. Christians have more reason to believe that the content of the original autographs was handed down intact more than any other ancient writing. If the NT bible can't be known, then nothing in history can be known.

  There are only a few disputed text variants. Looking at how the earliest Christians quoted those "disputed" texts should resolve any doubt.... unless you are a heretic, in which case no amount of evidence or reasoning will convince.
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  152

  Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would suggest:.

  the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

  the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

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  Sea Breeze

  JWs will claim that it is possible to know Christ and have a personal relationship with him.

  We all know that JW's claim a lot of contradictory things. For instance, JW's almost universally claim Jesus is their Mediator (for prayers). But the WT's position and official church doctrine is that Jesus is Mediator ONLY for 144K Christian believers over the past 2000 years.

  Of course their is no biblical definition of a Mediator being the bearer of prayers like the rank and file JW's believe. Scripture says that Jessu is the "Mediator of the New Covenant" the one "for the forgiveness of sins" in Mt. 26: 27-28.

  Similarly, Of course JW's are going to claim they have a personaly relationship with Jesus. How can you claim to be a "Christian" religion and not claim that?
  
  But can a person have a personal relationship with someone else if they never spoke to them even once?
  

  I don't think so. JW's would never talk directly to Jesus in prayer. So, no; they have no relationship with Jesus at all.
  
  
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  25

  Watchtower Used to Teach Jesus Was Not an Angel and was  "the Lord from Heaven" Who Died on a Cross!

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  .

  no wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from kingdon hall libraries.

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  Sea Breeze

  Modern versions don’t have Lord in this verse because it’s not in the critical Greek text based on the earliest manuscripts

  SLIMNBOYFAT: I listed several modern versions that have it. Millions of Christians do not accept the authority of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus because of reasons previously mentioned, like redactions, write-overs, missingng text and the thousands of times they disagree with each other. Because of this, millions of Christians are more comfortable with the majority text, or the text thst has been handed down to us through the centuries.
  
  There are 5800 NT manuscripts. Only about 10% seem to possibly agree with Vaticanus and Sinaiticus. 90 % agree with the Majority Text, which manuscrips enjoy near total agreement between each other.

  
  
  As a Unitarian, do you believe quotes from disciples that the apostles trained have any bearing on bible readings you dispute? For instance :

  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. - 1 Timothy 3: 16

  The "Critical Text" reads "He" in place of "God"

  But the early Christians all quoted this verse as "God was manifest in the flesh".

  1 Timothy 3:16 as cited by Church Fathers

  • John William Burgon (1813 - 1888)
  • The Greek text
  • Ignatius (ca 50 - between 98 and 117
  • Dionysius of Alexandria (ca. 190 - 265 AD)
  • Didymus of Alexandria or Didymus the Blind (c. 309/314 - 398)
  • Diodorus of Tarsus (- 392)
  • Gregory of Nazianzus (c 325 - 389)
  • Gregory of Nyssa (c 335 – probably 395)
  • John Chrysostom (c. 347 - 407)
  • Cyril of Alexandria (c. 376 - 444)
  • Theodoret of Cyrus (c. 393 – c. 460)
  • Unknown author (430)
  • Unknown author, 5th century
  • Euthalius (5th century)
  • Conclusion

  So, as a Unitarian, would you allow such evidence to be considered? Or does your belief in Unitarianism cause you to reject the testimony of the earliest Christians?
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  25

  Watchtower Used to Teach Jesus Was Not an Angel and was  "the Lord from Heaven" Who Died on a Cross!

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  no wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from kingdon hall libraries.

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  Sea Breeze

  Codex Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (late 4th century) disagree with 90% of extant manuscripts. They have faded and have been written over several times over the centuries, making it impossible to know what was originall written on them. Most scholars agree they had at leaast 4 different redactors. They disagree with each over 7000 times! They are loaded with scratchouts, and scratch-outs of the scratchouts. All of this makes it imposible for them to be reliable.
  
  Millions of Christians have good reason to not accept their authiority.

  Manuscripts that are far older than Vaticanus and Sinaiticus correcty render the vers as "Lord".

  Analysis of Peshitta verse 1Corinthians 15:47

  Translations

  (Etheridge) The first man who is of the earth is dust, the second man the Lord from heaven.

  (Murdock) The first man was of dust from the earth; the second man was the Lord from heaven.

  (Lamsa) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the LORD from heaven.

  (KJV) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
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  43

  Members of congregation know it’s not true

  by Mikejw in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  we have lonely old folks and even some not so old.. they know the gb are not who they claim to be.. but they stay in the congregation because they are lonely.

  i wonder what percentage of jws this is the case, i would guess a lot.

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  Sea Breeze

  Yes, they know the borganizartion isn't true, they know the leaders are idiots, and they know they have been fooled with end-times false prophecies.

  But......................... they still love the lying theology. Lying theology like you can atone for your own sins just by dying and that there is no consciousness after you die and the main lie: If you got something wrong, no worries, you get to have a do-over and try to be good for a thousand years while God gives you timberframe houses next to waterfalls and your own personal petting zoo.

  The resurrection of the unrighteous in NOT what the WT lyingly claims:

  The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. - Jesus

  Having rejected the opportuninty to be judged based on the works of Jesus {the righteous), people will be judged on their own works (the unrighteous).

  There will be no lions and bears to hug at the Great White Throne Judgment (after the Millenium), only cold hard justice.
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  43

  Members of congregation know it’s not true

  by Mikejw in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  we have lonely old folks and even some not so old.. they know the gb are not who they claim to be.. but they stay in the congregation because they are lonely.

  i wonder what percentage of jws this is the case, i would guess a lot.

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  Sea Breeze

  JWs have a huge turnover.

  @Anony Mous

  It could be the most of ANY group.
  
  

  
  

  In other words, even when facing the most horific costs associated with leaving like losing your loved ones due to the extreme shunning.... 2/3 of JW kids still no longer identify with Watchtower as adults.
  
  Think about that.
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  25

  Watchtower Used to Teach Jesus Was Not an Angel and was  "the Lord from Heaven" Who Died on a Cross!

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  .

  no wonder they instructed congregation elders to throw away old literature from kingdon hall libraries.

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  Sea Breeze

  Which modern English version do you say includes the word “Lord”?

  @SlimBoyFat

  
  

  534 Tyndale Bible

  1535 Coverdale Bible

  1537 Matthew's Bible

  1539 The Great Bible

  1560/99 Geneva Bible

  1568 Bishops Bible

  1611 King James Bible

  1769 King James Bible

  1833 Webster's Bible

  1862 Young's Literal

  1876 Julia E. Smith

  1993 J.P. Green's Literal

  2000 Revised YLT NT

  2016 King James Bible

  21st Century KJV

  New King James Version

  Modern English Version (2013)

  I'm sure there a few more I missed.

  I'm curious as to whether of not you believe if how the early church leaders quoted verses should affect a person's view on verses disputed by Unitarians such as yourself?
  
  Do you believe quotes from disciples that the apostles trained have any bearing on bible readings you dispute?
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  52

  EXPLOSIVE NEW LEAKED VIDEO OF C.O. CHASTISING ELDERS

  by raymond frantz in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://youtu.be/np05twylal8?si=wjcdevvpxmlwxb2p.

  shame is an ancient form of control.

  shame is the mechanism used to control behaviour.

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  Sea Breeze

  @nicolau,

  I stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address. If you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what Jesus offers, then why don't YOU present that in a new topic?
  
  If you really don't have one, you just end looking like another atheist blowhard with an ax to grind against Christians.
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  52

  EXPLOSIVE NEW LEAKED VIDEO OF C.O. CHASTISING ELDERS

  by raymond frantz in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://youtu.be/np05twylal8?si=wjcdevvpxmlwxb2p.

  shame is an ancient form of control.

  shame is the mechanism used to control behaviour.

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  Sea Breeze

  Nicolaou,

  God ... Won't lift a finger to protect you from an assailant or rapist....

  You have no way of knowing if this is true or not, especially since you are an atheist.

  As you already know, the answer to evil is to either judge it or take away our free will, make us robots and prevent the possibility of evil. Over and over a man who predicted that he would die and raise himself from the dead, while he was dead, said that there would be a personal judgment for everyone. That is God's answer to the problem of evil. You just don't like it, even though you have no clue of a practical and acceptable alternative.
  
  Billions of people have rejected the meaningless atheist drivel like what you present. It offers no hope, no justice and no solution to the problem of evil or death.

  Building on this ignorance, you "reason" that faith based addiction programs are a waste of time since evil still exists.

  This study reviews the voluminous empirical evidence on faith’s contribution to preventing people from falling victim to addictions and helping them recover from it. 73% of addiction treatment programs in the USA include a spirituality-based element, as embodied in the 12-step programs and fellowships initially popularized by Alcoholics Anonymous, the vast majority of which emphasize reliance on God or a Higher Power to stay sober.

  The nearly 130,000 congregation-based substance abuse recovery support programs in the USA contributes up to $316.6 billion in savings to the US economy every year at no cost to tax payers. 84% of scientific studies show that faith is a positive factor in addiction prevention or recovery.